The Holocaust Historiography Project

Translation of document 3839-PS

                          Statement
                             of
                 SS-Oberfuehrer Josef Spacil

I, Josef Spacil, make under oath and after being first duly sworn the
following additions to complete my declaration of 30 Sep 45.

In my and in the presence of the persons mentioned below, Ober
gruppenfuehrer (at that time Gruppenfuehrer) Pruetzmann in the first
days of August 1941 at his office at Riga (Ritterhaus) mentioned in the
course of a conversation that an order or a directive of the RFSS had
arrived, according to which criminal elements were to be resettled. Upon
counterquestions of the men, where the RFSS expects the resettlement,
Pruetzmann answered approx. the following: "Not how you think, they are
to be expedited to the next world." According to my memory, the
following were present:

     Stubaf Sievers
     Staf Fromm
     Mr Preuss (probably from Koenigsberg)
     3-4 men from the ORPO, Berlin

The word was mentioned in my presence from Pruetzmann for a second time
at ROWNO in May or June 1942. He said approx.: "The Higher SS and Police
Leaders are ordered to RFSS, who is passing through. (Through ROWNO.)
The resettlement has caused sensation abroad." Present according to my
memory were:

     General Oelhafen
     Oberf Hoff meier
     Some men of the construction HQ of highway IV, names unknown
     Lt. Col. Gericke
     And myself

In regard to "special treatment," I have the following knowledge: On
occasion of the meetings of the section heads, Gruppenfuehrer Mueller
frequently remarked to Kaltenbrunner, if the one or the other case
should receive "special treatment" or if "special treatment" was to be
considered. The expressions were the following for example:

Mueller: Obergruppenfuehrer, please case B special treatment or not?

Kaltenbrunner : Yes, or to be presented to RFSS for decision.

                             or

Mueller: Obergruppenfuehrer, no answer has arrived from the RFSS in
regard to special treatment of case A.

                                                              [Page 775]

Kaltenbrunner : To be traced.

                             or

Mueller handed a paper to Kaltenbrunner and requested instructions as
described before.

If such a conversation between Mueller and Kaltenbrunner took place,
only the initials were mentioned, so that the persons present at the
table never knew, who was involved.

I asked Mueller once, what the true meaning of "special treatment" was.
He replied that these people came to a special camp. He spoke of:

Walzertraum at Walsertal or Winzerstube, Godesberg

Exact information besides Kaltenbrunner might also be furnished by the
Adj. of the section head IV, Hstuf Tuchstein.

As far as I recall it, Mueller spoke to Kaltenbrunner mainly on
questions of the 20 July 1944.

Mueller as well as Kaltenbrunner have proposed special treatment resp.
presentation to RFSS for approval of special treatment in my presence
for special cases, which I cannot identify. I estimate that in approx.
50% of the cases, special treatment was approved.

That the facts stated above are true; that this declaration is made by
me voluntarily and without compulsion; that after reading over the
statement I have signed and executed the same at Oberursel/Germany this
8th clay of November 1945.

                                                  [signed] Josef SPACIL
                                                  SS-Oberfuehrer

Subscribed and sworn to before me at Oberursel !Germany this 9th day of
November 1945.

     [signed] Rudolf Urbach
     RUDOLF URBACH, Captain, AUS